Off the Beaten Path: The Dilemma of 'Secret' Destinations

Aurora Christy Oktavia, an Alumni of the RISE Travel Institute's Pilot Program, currently resides in Bali, Indonesia. She recently completed her Master's degree in International Tourism and Hospitality Management at Griffith University in Australia. In her conversation with host Amy Hager, Aurora shared insights into her journey in sustainable tourism, leveraging her educational background in forest conservation and tourism management, as well as her role as a luxury travel agent.

Aurora emphasized the challenges of community-based tourism, pointing out that while mass tourism can be problematic for some destinations, they often have the necessary infrastructure to handle it. Conversely, less frequented, "off the beaten path" locations – like Komodo Island in Indonesia, for example – may struggle due to the lack of infrastructure. She also delved into the concept of "keeping it secret" destinations, where locals prefer not to disclose hidden gems to tourists, underscoring the delicate balance between satisfying traveler curiosity and respecting the desires of local communities.

Aurora credited the RISE Flagship Program with enhancing her ability to ask probing questions, fostering open-mindedness, and shedding light on the complexities of sustainable tourism. She voiced concerns about "greenwashing" in the travel industry, and stressed the importance of long-term sustainability. Her ultimate legacy aspiration is to enhance people's lives through better travel experiences and to foster positive, transformative changes.

Host: Amy Hager - Social Media Manager at The RISE Travel Institute
Video and Audio Editing: Kate Mulvihill - Video and Podcast Producer at The RISE Travel Institute
Graphic Design: Shirley Wong - Freelance Art Director
Music: "On My Way" Kevin MacLeod (License) 

Transcript

Intro     
Hello and welcome. Wherever you are in the world today, thank you for joining us for The RISE Traveler, unpacking conversations of sustainable travel. We are here to talk to eco minded and socially conscious travelers, diversity and inclusion specialists, wildlife conservationists, environmental activists, and anyone using travel as a way to uplift and inspire. Together, we will go a step beyond the Instagram-ready world of travel, and take a look at how travel can be a source of growth and development for all people in all communities. 

This podcast is an extension of the RISE Travel Institute, a 501c3 nonprofit committed to empowering young travelers through educational programs, research, study tours and scholarships. Visit risetravelinstitute.org to learn more. And now, here's your host, Amy Hager. 

Amy Hager     
Hello, hello, wherever you are in the world today. Thank you for joining us on The RISE Traveler, unpacking conversations of sustainable travel. We're here to really talk about how travel can be uplifting and inspiring and going a step beyond that Instagram-ready world that we kind of see and know of travel and really take a look at how travel can be a source of growth and development for all people in all communities. Here at the RISE Travel Institute we're committed to empowering travelers through education programs, research, study tours and scholarships. So learn more by visiting risetravelinstitute.org. If we have not met before I am your host, Amy. Amy Hager, welcome. And I'm super excited today. Joining me from Bali is Aurora and we are going to be talking a little bit about if anti mass tourism will be good, and it's actually sustainable tourism. And so before we dive deep into this topic, I'm really excited to hear a little bit more about you Aurora. So tell us a background. What do you do in this world?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Okay, hi, I'm Aurora. I'm a student of RISE Travel Institute for the Pilot Program in 2021. If I'm not mistaken, it's been two years already crazy to think.
Yeah, I'm currently live in Bali, Indonesia, I've done my education in both forest conservation and Tourism Management. That's why I'm really diving in the sustainable tourism concept. And currently, I'm working as a salesperson and a luxury travel agent. So I'm working with all these high net clientele and this luxury travel.
Yeah, that's what I do.

Amy Hager    
Nice. Well, so then, tell me a little bit about how mass tourism actually affects an area and dive into a little bit about that with us, will you?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Okay, so I think as someone who is learning about sustainable tourism, it's been how can I say this? People always say that the main mass tourism is the biggest flaw of it, because people come to a destination in packs. large crowds, it's destroyed the environment, it's destroyed the community. It's destroyed. The local economy. So it's always been mass tourism as the biggest driver of sustainable tourism. And I've seen it in Bali, of course, because after poppin everyone wants to go to Bali. So suddenly, the traffic cam is everywhere, and the prices go up. I've seen it. But also I've seen how my clients travel. So as a luxury market, they don't want to go to this mass tourism destination, right? They always go to exclusive areas that they always want to go to, which is the slogan of the unbeaten path, places that people have never gone before. And I thought when I first went to this industry Oh, that's great, then we're developing sustainable tourism then by making these people post to places that are not as crowded but I don't see it that way. Right now. I don't, I no longer see that. mass tourism is the biggest devil and the less tourists less mass tourism is better sustainable. 

Amy Hager    
Also then is less people actually better is that what you're saying? Or you know, that's not what you're believing anymore?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
That's what I believe in. Okay, so. So I think, at least for the case in Indonesia, a non mass tourism development most likely is an underdeveloped tourism destination. Okay. So because not many people go there. The local focus is smart tourism. I will take this example. So we have Bali in one place, and Komodo Island, it's the newest trending, hotspot tourism destination right now. Yeah, Bali. Bali is a mess tourism destination. Yeah, but the local community is prepared. They know how to welcome tourists. They know they speak English, they know how to build with these different cultures, they have infrastructure, they have what it takes to do. I know that press is also a huge issue, but they already see it as a problem and try to manage it. They have them. Okay, Komodo, and on the other hand, they have none of it. Local community is not prepared. When I went to Komodo island a few weeks ago, my guide was Jakartans people, people from Java, and not the locals. Yeah. One who owns every infrastructure, not locals, the locals cannot keep up. Because it's, they didn't cap us to welcome these stories to that basis. They don't know how to speak in this and etc. They don't know what kind of issue that could disturb their life. They didn't see press as an issue, for example, or plastic waste as an issue because they're not used to seeing water bottles coming from people coming into their area. So I see that when it comes to non mastery of some destination, they are actually struggling more to welcome this, I wouldn't say unwelcome, but like they are not prepared to welcome these foreign people, these stories coming to their houses, to their homes to their area to their city. So yeah, I think it's why it's weird for me itself to say that mass tourism actually could be more sustainable than this. Going to a middle of nowhere kind of tourism.

Amy Hager    
Yeah, go off the beaten path or somewhere less traveled. Right. And so the people who live on the island that they're not used to mass tourism, yo, I know that sometimes solutions end up being, you know, some sort of community based tourism to develop the area. And so I'm curious what your take is. What do you think the shortcomings are? Are there shortcomings of community based tourism? Like is that an actual solution?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Yeah, it's, it's really a way to think about it. At first, I also thought that community based tourism is the answer, because that's where a nonprofit organization or government can go into affiliates and help to prepare all of these years, all these local people to build their own program, tourism activity, or other things. I thought that was the preferred solution. But I don't think that way anymore. Because when, because this is where going into a lottery market really changed my mind. Okay. My clients, because they pay a lot, they expect a really, really, really high quality. Yeah. And to be honest with you, the community cannot keep up to it because, well, they're not trained in tourism, they are before previously they are farmers, or they are fisherman's, or they're they're just not were they just not prepared to welcome tourists in whatever we whatever quality that these tourists demand. So it's become difficult and I've seen that even for the domestic market, I mean, not not among luxury markets, people who go on a purchase don't go to this community based tourism destination a lot. I see that despite a lot of money or funds going into these places. It's not working. So it's quite difficult. I mean, I know that I cannot say the A solution right now. Right. But I think this is the issue that we need to see and accept that there is an issue in this kind of tourism.

Amy Hager    
Yeah. So it's acknowledging the issue first, and then coming together to develop the solution. Right?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Yeah, it's easy. Right? 

Amy Hager    
Right. Well, things that you shared that I wasn't on my awareness was, you know, when they're traveling, when you have your travelers going into this island, a lot of times when we talk about traveling to different communities, looking for lodging that is supported or owned by like, a local family, or a local company, but it sounds to me like on the island here, there there, isn't that right? It's someone coming in and providing lodging services. And so does that mean that the money actually even stays really in that community, I get that there's probably some employment for some people that live there locally. But if the ownership isn't even from someone from the island, then the dollars really aren't even staying in that community to support that community even more, right?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Yeah, I mean, how can someone who runs their house keep up with these huge hotel chains? Right? Yeah. How can they keep up with it? How can they keep up with the prices and read the quality of it? Even if there is someone who is let's say, there's someone who reads and wants to build this? hotels or something in their area? They didn't have knowledge for it. They previously worked in different sectors, right? So it's quite difficult. I mean, not that I say that it was impossible, but it's definitely made its time. Yeah. Yeah, it took a lot of time.

Amy Hager    
So then you've done a case study called keep it secret. Tell us a little bit about this.

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
So it's not how can I say it's also related to mastery, right? There is. I'm sorry. People already realized that they don't want to go to a crowded tourism destination. Especially me that lives in Bali, even though I'm not above Venus. Like I really want to have some places that I can enjoy without being crowded. Yeah, right. And that's where gatekeeping coasts that keep it a secret destination goes, where when I find something, some places I don't want to go share it with other people. I don't want to post it on social media, because I don't want anyone else to know about it. That's become a quiet phenomenon here. Yeah, but also to encounter this phenomenon of hidden areas, hidden places, this influencer, who goes and starts looking for these hidden places and places that to be honest with you locals have been gatekeeping from the tourists. And this is a very interesting phenomenon to see because like, on one hand, I understand that these tourists, these visitors want to feel fully immersed. They want to fully immerse themselves in the culture to the destination, they want to go to local goals, but there's also this local concern of I'm not sure if I have this term, right, a backdoor where they want their own space when they want to. Maybe bad not bad mouthing you but like talking to each other without the need to have to be an interface for the visitors that come in. Right right. So this is also how can I say an interesting issue that comes for this mass destination and the less mass destination? So should we as a traveler really go to these places that less miss this nature? That last day flop and not ready to welcome us? I think it's something that is interesting.

Amy Hager    
Oh, yeah, you're bringing up a really interesting In concept, you know, at least when you're traveling to a destination that's prepared to accept tourism and is, quote unquote, mass destination. And if you're going somewhere that's more off the beaten path. You know, as travelers, we were curious, right? We want to ask questions, we want to learn more about the local life and about the life that people live there. Because it's different from the life we live in our own homes. Right? That's, and in, you know, maybe these people don't want to talk about that, right? If they did, maybe they would live in more of the mass tourism area, right. And there are people who love to be hosts, and to really talk to travelers. And so I feel like those people are where they need to be when they're in those mass destinations. So you're, you're really bringing up some really, really great thought pieces and thought points. And again, you know, we don't have solutions today. But I think creating that awareness is really, really important. And so I'm a little bit curious since you do travel quite a bit and you have taken the RISE, the RISE Flagship Program, how has that program really empowered you, in your choices, as a traveler?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
I will say that The Beatles one that I realized, it's, it's making me ask more questions. Yeah. So an example when I go to the Komodos, the one that I've talked about before, I'm not just accepting what the guides taught me, or I'm not just what is just seen around, oh, this is such a beautiful place. But I'm asking questions like, Okay, so where are you from? Are you from these islands? Or and like, Okay, how do the locals keep up to this? What kind of people are coming here? How is there any conflict? I'm starting to ask him those questions. So at least I'm only annoying my guide. So it's okay. It's his job. But yeah, I think this, I'm really grateful that I'm starting to look from a different perspective and start to realize that everything is not as good as it seems, or as simple as it seems.

Amy Hager    
As I say, it's not as simple right. And I think to travel with curiosity, and asking questions, and being open, I think is one of the biggest lessons that we learn from the RISE Flagship Program, right?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Yeah. 

Amy Hager    
The piece of the program, I guess, the Capstone part of the program, how do you think that really has influenced your work? How are you as a traveler as well?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
So I'm actually working on this Pilot Program when I'm doing my master's degree. And at first, I mean, as you know, university mainly works with this theory stuff. So I have this kind of idea in my head that, oh, this is what sustainable tourism should look like. But when I go diving to the program, and then I see or even I remember in the animal tourism discussion, I remember that the one who gave the material itself is debating within its order. So I'm like, Oh, okay. It's really interesting. That all of this is still debatable. And it's also preparing me for this real life, the real work that I need to do after the master's degree. Sustainable tourism still has a very long way to go. And it's not as easy as the theory says, but it's also still worth striving for. Yeah.

Amy Hager    
Yeah. Well, and I think, again, like you really nailed it. A lot of time people go through university, and they understand a lot of theory, but they're missing that practicality point of it. And it isn't as black and white, as the words are written in a book. And so it really is complex issues that we don't have answers to, but going in and exploring and figuring out the answer I think is really, really important. And I love that that's, that's kind of where you are in your journey and and so I'm curious when you look through your your crystal ball, how do you see the future of sustainable travel like what do you see it

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Unfortunately, I will take off a pessimist point of view in this. Seeing what happens around me, I see for the upcoming few years, at least, clean washing will still hold the era in sustainable tourism. Because right now, I know that there's a rising demand for sustainability. But I don't think the industry itself realizes that they need sustainability. There are a lot of other demands that they put. Put first, right instead of sustainability, and that's where greenwashing came in, right when they do something, but not really doing something. Yeah, I think it will still be the trend for upcoming years, at least until the industry itself realizes that they need sustainability to survive. Yeah,

Amy Hager    
Yeah, they have to dig deeper. Hmm, that makes sense. Well, so then, as we wrap up our conversation today, what legacy Do you want to leave behind in this world?

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Oh, wow. That's excellent. I'm really thinking hard about this question. Yeah. But yeah, I'm actually one to make people live better by traveling better. Okay, I believe that travelers can change. Let me rephrase this. I believe travel can change people's way to see everything, they can change the way of people's thinking, and therefore they can change people's life. And so I want to be able to provide people with better travel experience, so they can also change their life for a better one.

Amy Hager    
Well, and I think that's why your belief in what we do here at Rhys just flows so well together, we really do believe that travel is a tool and there is a way to make this world a better place through travel. And I think through conversations like we've had today and experiencing and realizing that there's not an easy fix to anything, quote, unquote, and to really dive in deep and look into it. So thank you so much for joining me today. Aurora.

Aurora Christy Oktavia    
Thank you for inviting me here.

Amy Hager    
Yes. And that brings us to the end of our journey. So if you've liked what you've heard, and you want to hear more, please subscribe, like and comment. And you can follow us at RISE Travel Institute on Facebook or Instagram or on Twitter @bearisetraveler. And again here at the RISE Travel Institute, we really do believe travel is a powerful tool for positive transformative change. And so if you're a college student planning on studying abroad or a professional thinking about a gap year or really anyone who's wanting to travel the world in a sustainable way, I do really encourage you to head on over to the risetravelinstitute.org For more information on our educational program, and we'll be back soon with another episode. But until then, keep roaming, keep learning and continue to be a RISE traveler. Bye bye.

Close     
This podcast is an extension of The RISE Travel Institute, a 501c3 nonprofit committed to empowering young travelers through educational programs, research, study tours, and scholarships. Visit risetravelinstitute.org to learn more.